R: R: [amsat-bb] get a clue...

["i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@xxxxxx>]

Hi Joe K0VTY,

I also would like to know why the L band is not controlled or cannot
be controlled by LEILA and i strongly believe that if  no action will be
taken the race to high power L-band stations will grow up at disadvantage
of the U-band users.
 
73" de i8CVS Domenico

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <k0vty@juno.com>
To: <domenico.i8cvs@tin.it>; <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: R: [amsat-bb] get a clue...


> Hi Dom
> 
> Can you tell me why the L ban does not have a Lelia to control the up
> link ERP ?
> 
> Joe  K0VTY
> =======================
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:00:35 +0100 "i8cvs" <domenico.i8cvs@tin.it>
> writes:
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lee <lee-fl@cfl.rr.com>
> > To: <amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] get a clue...
> > 
> > 
> > > There are several things which I believe contribute to this 
> > problem.
> > >
> > > 1.  In some cases it is an attempt to compensate for a simple lack 
> > of
> > > receive sensitivity.  Stations hearing the excessively strong 
> > L-band
> > signals
> > > don't realize how marginal their receive set up is.
> > >
> > 
> > Lee and Kevin,
> > 
> > Many stations using L-band uplink are really at the same level or 
> > constantly
> > stronger than the beacon by 6 dB or more all the time as i can see 
> > on my
> > panoramic receiver wich is constantly connected to the IF of my 2400 
> > MHz
> > downconverter and they are strong not because those stations 
> > hearing
> > excessive strong L-band signals are using marginal receiver 
> > sensitivity but
> > because those L-band signals are strong in reality including 
> > sometime my
> > self.
> > 
> > Excessive strong L-band signals are possible because LEILA do not 
> > operate
> > for the L-band uplink and actually i can increase my L-band power to 
> > any
> > level i like and i can be as many dB over the beacon i  decide 
> > without the
> > intervention of LEILA
> > 
> > The problem is that many radio operators in the passband instead to
> > disregard those stations using very high level downlink through the 
> > L-band
> > congratulates instead with those L-band operators for their strong 
> > signals
> > and they are happy to make QSO hearing strong signals so that the 
> > pile-up
> > over a 6 dB or more signal over the beacon is higly populated and
> > continuously operating particularly when the moon is not in range 
> > for some
> > EME operators.
> > 
> > Remember that if a signal is at the level or more than the beacon 
> > this
> > signal is coming from the L-band uplink because LEILA do not operate 
> > in it.
> > and is not coming from the U-band.
> > 
> > > 2. The L-band rx AGC does not restrict users of this band to the
> > recommended
> > > MB-10db signal level.  As a result some stations attempt to 
> > achieve the
> > same
> > > excessive levels using the 70cm uplink resulting in decreased 
> > U-Rx
> > > sensitivity.
> > 
> > Stations using excessive 70 cm uplink power cannot achieve the same
> > excessive level of those using L-band because LEILA put  a notch 
> > and
> > the siren to the U-band offending signals for level just 8 dB belove 
> > the
> > beacon. If i use the U-band uplink i cannot desense the U-band 
> > receiver and
> > i cannot desense the L-band receiver at all because of the above 
> > LEILA
> > limitations.
> > 
> > Normally my 70 cm and 23 cm TX are ON all the time and some time i 
> > prefere
> > to use the U-band uplink but as soon LEILA get a notch on me i can 
> > switch
> > immediately to the L-band and i can continue to discusse with my 
> > friends
> > even with a stronger signal over the LEILA siren using the L-band 
> > uplink !
> > 
> > > 3.  The U-rx AGC has been driven so high for so long that everyone 
> > now
> > > considers it normal to run 4 to 8 times the recommended 100w 
> > EIRP.
> > 
> > If i run 4 or 8 times more power than the recommended power for the
> > U-band, LEILA put a notch on me and i get the siren on,so that
> > i cannot desense the transponder using U-band but i can easily 
> > desense the
> > transponder for everybody using the L-band because LEILA do not 
> > operate in
> > it.
> > 
> > Without LEILA for the L-band the actual EIRP depends only by a 
> > decision
> > of the L-band  operator but for the U-band operator is LEILA that 
> > decides.
> > 
> > The difference existing between the limitation using high power on 
> > U-band
> > because of LEILA intervention and the freedom of using any power in 
> > L-band
> > without any limitation by LEILA make the operation of the AO40 
> > transponder
> > impartial because the users become divided in to two different 
> > categories
> > Those that are limited by a good  impartial roule and those that are 
> > only
> > limited by their roules.
> > 
> > > Take a look at some AO-40 AGC data downloaded from the archive for 
> > this
> > > month.
> > > http://home.cfl.rr.com/lmclamb/ao40agc1202.html
> > >
> > 
> > A test of desensing  was made by G3WDG, DJ1KM, 4X1AS and my self 
> > some monts
> > ago and this indicates that using U-band the SSB is mostly affected 
> > by LEILA
> > and that CW or a steady carriers like SSTV are  less affected  by 
> > LEILA for
> > example.
> > 
> >  > Lee-KU4OS
> > 
> > Lee and Kevin
> > 
> > I cannot understand why i should have the freedom to overload and 
> > desense
> > everybody in the passband using the L-band and i cannot do the same 
> > using
> > the U-band because of LEILA and i cannot understand why LEILA is 
> > not
> > operating  for the L-band or cannot be switched time to time between 
> > the
> > U-band and the L-band in a more balanced operating democracy.
> > 
> > Technical problems or what  ?
> > 
> > 73" de i8CVS Domenico
> > 
> > 
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "kevin schuchmann" <kschuchm@pacbell.net>
> > > To: <amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 16:55 PM
> > > Subject: [amsat-bb] get a clue...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >    could people please get a clue on AO40?  everyone has run too 
> > much
> > > power
> > > > at one time or another
> > > > including myself... but I try not to... yet there are stations 
> > that are
> > > > always way too loud... pass after pass... I'm talking beacon 
> > level
> > here...
> > > >
> > > > GET A CLUE!!! tune down and look at the beacon, I don't care 
> > what your
> > > setup
> > > > is... it doesn't matter..
> > > > but look at that beacon... see where it is on your meter??? be 
> > under it
> > by
> > > > at least a couple s units....
> > > >
> > > >  and another thing,everyone loves to praise cw, how it can get 
> > through
> > > when
> > > > ssb wont cut it.... then how come so many cw stations are 
> > beacon
> > level???
> > > > DUH!!!
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure that a lot of people have seen this behavior and have 
> > seen the
> > > > results... agc clamping the passband... and splatter and  images 
> > on the
> > > > passband....
> > > >
> > > > If you only get the beacon a s unit or two above your noise 
> > guess
> > what...
> > > > you need to fix your receive and probably shouldn't be on the 
> > sat till
> > you
> > > > fix that....
> > > >
> > > > ok rant mode off... shields up!!
> > > >
> > > > Kevin
> > > > WA6FWF
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----
> > > > Via the amsat-bb mailing list at AMSAT.ORG courtesy of 
> > AMSAT-NA.
> > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to 
> > Majordomo@amsat.org
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Via the amsat-bb mailing list at AMSAT.ORG courtesy of AMSAT-NA.
> > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to 
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> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > ----
> > Via the amsat-bb mailing list at AMSAT.ORG courtesy of AMSAT-NA.
> > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to Majordomo@amsat.org
> > 
> > 
> 
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